What is Pond and why’d you start it?
MJ: I always loved spaces, like Starcleaners and Epicenter, that were not so institutionalized. I was interested in something that had a lot of immediacy and spontaneity, and was genuinely grassroots, and where there weren’t any division between the people funding the artspace and the people producing the work and the people involved in running the space.
SS: We were just gonna have a small little gallery that would occasionally have shows, and the other times just serve as our studio. But because we were working on the place for so long, cleaning it up, repainting…. Other people [told us]“Oh, that’s so cool that you’re starting a space.” Then we realized that we could make this a real deal, a real thing in this community, because obviously people wanted it.
What is the difference between do-it-yourself and professional spaces?
BR: The “alternative space” has become a canon in itself. DIY spaces like Pond include a broader spectrum of interests.
MJ: I think sometimes DIY can be a rationale for lack of professionalism, though professionalism is not the aesthetic we’re going for.
SS: It shouldn’t be DIY or professional, I don’t want to be pigeonholed into anything. I want a space where anyone feels like they can come in and see anything … Also, DIY spaces are not nearly as concerned with money as professional spaces. It was never our goal to get tons of grant money and be totally set, or sell tons of work and make money off that, that was never our goal, it’s never going to be our goal.
Can you live without money indefinitely?
SS: Our goal is to be self-sustaining on our own terms … I’d rather just close down than have to fucking have Banana Republic sponsor us … that would make everything pointless.
When did you first get the idea to get a space, and how long did it take?
MJ: On the first day we looked, this was the first listing.
SS: We called the guy, he said “I’m only showing it for 30 minutes” –
MJ: He had only posted it 30 minutes before we looked at it, he said “I’m showing it now.” So I went down here and was talking to him. I kept going on about it and he got really excited … October 2000 we got the lease, started making the design, realized we were going to have an art space. November I filed the paperwork for nonprofit status … both of us have a background in nonprofit work, so that seemed like the most logical way to go. We curated the show in four weeks and opened the doors on January 1st.
SS: The place was totally destroyed, missing walls, missing a ceiling.
MJ: There were piles of shit.
SS: There were huge bags of stuff, every room was destroyed. We did tons and tons or remodeling, 12-hour days right up to opening the doors.
How much did it cost?
MJ: $35,000 total, so far.
How many people did it take?
SS: Me and my friend, and occasionally Marisa.
It was full time?
SS: It was pretty fucking full time. Wake up at eight in the morning, work till nine, 10 at night and then buy my friend beers so that he’d keep working.
What are the permits people need?
MJ: Local business license, city paperwork, register in the city and the state, and at the federal level too if you’re going nonprofit.
SS: A business bank account is really important. Checking into the permits is important. Having a sandwich board requires a permit. Having a huge sign hanging from nails above peoples’ head doesn’t. And you should have a fire marshal come in, they’ll tell you what your maximum occupancy is.
Having liability insurance is pretty important. If somebody slips and falls, your whole org and everything you tried to start is gone for the next four years of your life as you pay for the neck injury.
How do you work with volunteers?
SS: Everyone’s a volunteer. We’re all volunteers.
Is every volunteer automatically a keeper?
BR: Some people are more committed to begin with.
SS: A lot of times it’s faster to do it ourselves, but volunteers are really important for a lot of daily functions … our website is totally done by volunteers.
Any other tips for opening a DIY space?
SS: I think the most important thing is having a clear understanding of what you’re getting into. You’re not going to open up and have a hundred members … have good financial expectations that are rooted in reality.
MJ: Understand streams of revenue and fundraising strategy. Having a grantwriter, BEFORE you do anything. We kind of did it ass-backwards.
SS: Especially if you’re doing a nonprofit it’s important to hold out for a space that has enough square footage where you can have an event. It’s hard to raise money in a cramped little space …
MJ: On a personal level, I have had to compromise and not do a lot I would have liked to have done over this past year and a half.
SS: I actually am surprised we’ve been able to put on as many shows as we have … I look at other people who get programming grants for $50,000. Our whole programming for last year didn’t cost $20,000.
MJ: We’ve had 11 monthly exhibitions and about 25 events total — lectures, special events.
What are your hopes for art in SF?
MJ: I kind of hope that things get more gritty, but without diminishing the quality of work … I would like to see things that have more connection to other international art spaces. I’m hoping we’ll see more spaces like the ones we were inspired by … like Epicenter and Starcleaners.
SS: I would like to see more things like the 17th & Capp warehouse.
Those are gone now.
SS: People are starting ventures now that will be around for a long time. Those places are really what makes the city a great place, they kind of got shit on when all the rents went up … I think there’s more potential now than when we opened up for people to get a decent rate on their lease
BR: There are more art spaces, but it’s not helpful to the art community if they’re all competing to be the best new alternative art space. If they’re competing against each other, what’s the point? If they’re all working together that’s really significant … How do you have a space that runs more closely aligned to the ideals of your life, rather than this larger art institution that’s so tied to money it’s impossible to see beyond it? I’d like to see an arts community in SF that takes in more things than just showing art on the wall.
Visit Pond in San Francisco at 214 Valencia St. between Duboce and 14th, online at www.mucketymuck.org/, or call (415) 437-9151.
Tags: art as intervention, DIY Library, profiles
