July 27, 2006

[Originally published in the 2005 Expo newspaper]

[Read other venue profiles in the Expo DIY Library.]

Why don't you catch us up with your activities since we last spoke in 2002. You got evicted from your first space on Valencia ...

SS: We opened, then closed, and then were sort of in hiatus for a little bit while we worked on a large public project called One Trees, involving cloned trees.

Cloned trees growing up simultaneously in different San Francisco microclimates. I remember that.

SS: Then our old spaced closed at the end of August 2002, I think. We reopened [in a new space] and had our first show there in June 2003. Since then wešve added another director, David Forster. We just recently closed our second gallery space on the 15th of June, 2005.

What's changed in that time?

SS: Marissa Jahn, the other director is attending M.I.T.‹the grad program for visual studies‹which is starting in the Fall. So shešs actually moved. Shešs living in NY right now, [and] is going to be taking a little bit less of a role in the daily admin, the daily runnings of Pond. The biggest change since Forster has been a director is [that] wešve had a shift in how wešve been currating shows. Theyšve been much more based around a strategic idea. Starting with an exhibition entitled "Unfurled," which is an exhibition of flags which wešre actually going to be showing in Estonia in August. And also another project which wešre possibly continuing to do called Ala Cart, which is a mobile cart wešve been displaying art work in, and sort of crashed other events with, and showed around the city without the use of a gallery.

DF: And after that we had the maps show of artists' maps and guides to the city. The idea being the gallery was sort of this home base for things and events that were happening outside. Walks that you could be led on or little cards of places to go or ways of framing your experience in the city. And then after that our final show of the year was Shop Dropping, which was artists doing experiments and interventions in retail spaces, and sometimes other places too. Basically people kind of working to subvert retail, and using retail spaces as an environment for art.

So you actually were doing art in the retail spaces, or were you using your old gallery to show the art done in those retail spaces?

SS: Both. The show that happened inside the gallery was more a documentation of what happened outside the gallery. Since Forrester has been the director wešve made a big effort to do what we were talking about in 2002 and dematerialize‹up until just recently keeping the gallery as a sort of space to show documentation of things happening outside of the space, and trying to get further and further away from a more standard way of showing art work in a gallery space. All the shows have one theme in common in that they all take place‹in some aspect‹in the public.

Were these retail art projects permitted? Or did you just do it?

SS: Most people did it covertly. And there were some more aggressive, confrontational takes on shopdropping, and other of them were more like gift-giving and hidden surprises that you would find. The exhibition was good in that it incorporated a lot of nonartists as well as artists. There were kids from the Girls and Boys Club that participated.

Anything coming up for the fall we should know about?

DF: The I-5 project. Wešre working with Amy Balkan in collaboration with a couple of other people. Shešs been working on it for over a year now ... conducting interviews along the I-5 corridor, from San Francisco to L.A., talking to different people both local and also specialists about different environmental catastrophes along the I-5. Shešs basically organizing all of these interviews into two CDs, along with a booklet. You put it in your car and skip to whatever track, depending on what mile-marker you are and learn about the area youšre driving through. All the sites are within five miles from the freeway. Wešre also going to have a lecture series [and] have a launch at San Francisco Art Institute. Therešs also a group of students from SFAI that are going to go on a field trip, down the I-5, and go to some of the sites, and therešll be another launch in L.A. that same weekend.

You don't take commissions from your artists, but neither do you help them sell. Just exhibit. That has to be tough, financially. Maybe you can talk about the personal struggle with paying bills and supporting your life's work?

SS: Well, ground zero. Therešs a lot of money involved in running a space, not just the rent but the upkeep, the promotion, we donšt have enough money to ever pay any of our artists or to offer them a stipend or anything else. Luckily wešve had a lot of support from artists themselves ... What we can offer, or what we try to offer, in lieu of money, is to get some exposure and press, that can help them further their careers or further their concepts.

As far as our struggle, it was really bad timing to open a nonprofit right after September 11. A lot of funding for the arts was gone. So, itšs been entirely funded by our day jobs, which has been difficult to do. Itšs only been made possible because we were able to live at both the last two spaces‹although very covertly, we were living there.

The whole dematerialization thing seems pretty useful as a concept. It still gives you room to do what you want to do. If things do get rough, you can still make Pond happen.

DF: I think thatšs something wešre realizing right now because wešve shut down the gallery but wešre really busy. Most galleries that need to find a place to put their paints and objects wouldnšt be able to do that, but because we have all these non-gallery based projects going on, we can do it. The problem is just visibility for us. People know because of our email list and post cards and whatnot, but at this very moment there isnšt that central nexus place for people to stand over a cup of beer and talk about it.

In your experience working with other arts organizations, do you feel like youšre competing for audiences and funding?

SS: I think the benefit of being a non-profit, and specifically the way that Pond has sort of been run on these fairly lofty ideals of not taking any money for work sold, not taking corporate sponsorship, the big benefit is that wešve gotten a lot of assistance from larger nonprofits. Yerba Buena has helped us out on several occasions. I really think that for a large institution theyšre doing a really awesome job of supporting local spaces like us. Southern Exposure has also given us a lot of help. Wešve gotten a lot of support from just local spaces getting people to come to our shows. Like, Adobe books, and smaller spaces‹Needles and Pens, and Low Gallery. Itšs much more of a community than I think it was if we were a commercial gallery. Therešs a real bonding together thatšs been happening, therešs more spaces that are more D.I.Y., that are ‹not only geographically‹sticking together. I think thatšs important, and I would like to see that continue.

Any tips for people interested in trying to start or work at an independent space like yours?

DF: As much as possible, try to take what youšre doing very seriously and very professionally, even though you are not professional, when youšre really just going on a shoestring.

SS: From the beginning we admitted we were really going to be dedicating everything to it ... and therešs wasnšt going to be a lot, or really any, return on time and money. Therešs return in other ways. Itšs kind of like an investment ... itšs a way of building up a community. And your reward is feeling like youšre helping to crystallize something. And again, that freedom of admitting that youšre not going to get anything back from it.

The biggest thing that would change the Bay Area is if the rents were cheaper. [Laughs.] I think you would see a lot more interesting stuff. Not everybody that is an interesting artist would move to NY right away if it wasnšt so expensive to live here.

You can learn more about Pond's de- and re-materializations on their Web page, www.mucketymuck.org/.